the young people's professor

While no one should be assaulted or victimized, I don't quite understand nor identify with the ballroom community. It's like saying that I should identify with gay mimes. They happened to be gay or whatever, but I don't particularly identify with them otherwise. Moreover, the evidence does not suggest that this was a hate crime based upon sexual orientation or race, but a "feud or rivalry" between "houses" in the ballroom community.

1st is there a site where i can read/see the complete real story.

2nd from the reports i have read this was a typical "lick" with some gay hate attached.

3rd, javier before you talk about the ballroom scene of which you obviously have no idea do some research. It happens to be one of the most "nonviolent" forms of battle there is next to break dancing. With the many well educated and respected mothers and fathers of these houses they would neverr condone or allow the generation of a feud or rivalry. I don't belong to a house myself however have a great respect for their missions and purpose. Which is to give a sense of fmaily to its members.

Finally I was horrified by what happened in chicago and consider it a tragedy that should be taken by the entire gay community (black white other) as a sign that people in general are not as tolerant as we are being led to believe and we should mobilize to strengthen and educate our members.

Thats my minute on the soapbox have a goodnight.

Frank,

thank you for your timely and relevant post.

while i also have little connection with the ballroom scene, i don't fail to see those damn "ism's" at play in the aftermath of this incident.

i'd like to know what "evidence" there is supporting one house blasting away members of another house. javier, who prides himself on his distance from the ballroom scene, has apparently seen this evidence. i'd love to see it too, since it must be so widely available that even those who "don't particularly identify" with the ballroom scene have access to it.

it's no secret that folks in the neighborhood resented the victims for being gay and that they have gone out of their way to make it clear that the party attendees deserved their fate. shit, they've been blabbing to reporters about how they "had it coming."

let's be clear: if there's any evidence amiss, it's evidence of homophobia in the community and an unwavering approval of violence against black gay folk. and by utilizing this opportunity to demonize the ballroom community, instead of dealing with a shockingly horrific act of hate, the broader black gay community is complicit in that homophobia. what we're doing is delaying the very important work of quelling this hatred in the places that we live. if we can't take this opportunity to acknowledge our damn value on this earth, then when will it happen?

i look forward to seeing your piece on this issue. thank you for moving the conversation forward

I've read the news on rod 2.o and your post: do what you feel is good to let us know what happens really.

Frank, since you feel strongly that the ballroom scene is being scapegoated, why don't you inform your audience about the current leaders of Chicago's ballroom scene? Your article in Clik was nice but short...Where is the outcry specifically from the leaders of the ballroom community that you alledge is being blamed for the shootings? Who are they..what are their names and how do they support the community...Also, isn't it better to equip members of the ballroom community with the ability to represent themselves instead of relying on those outside of it to seek knowledge of it?

I don't have anything against the ballroom scene per se, but God knows I'm tired of reading "you don't know us" and " you need to do your research." Why doesnt the ballroom community just "Come Out" of its closet or is it all about smoke, shadows, (de)illusions of grandeur and enigmas? If you're black and gay you aint THAT different from the rest of us black gay men as to require a special lens for interpretation...just represent.
The last person I came in contact with from the ballroom community said to me point blank and w/o any communicative prompting on my part verbal or otherwise, "You Wish You Were Me...Don't Hate"... Im mean WTF is that lol!? didn't feel very sgl friendly to me. While yall are busy informing "us" of the Ballroom community, take some time to coach your members on how to behave toward the general public and more specifically, other blk gay men who don't travel those circles. Just because we may not be familiar with that scenes customs, language and hierarchies, it don't automatically mean that we are hating.

I don'ty have a clue about the "ballroom" kids other than they seem to want to be wearing designer clothes that they can't afford. Perhaps, it would be wise to discuss and tell other black gays who they are and what they stand for before saying they are victims. If they are stupid enough to start shooting and killing over this, they have some major issues as bad as the creeps in that neighborhood they live in. But, I have to admit, I don't want a party of 100 people on my block, its a house, not a nightclub.

Well, Frank, if it isn't a case of ballroom kids going gangsta because they couldn't cut it on the dance floor, then what was it then? Because I tell you what, I would much rather have this thing be about neighbors deciding to do something about the nasty, noisy homo's than the former...

at least that way, some of the more popular lesbian and gay bloggers will speak on this instead of being apathetic as some are now.

As usual, Frank, you beat me to the punch. Deeply saddened by all of this.

Now once again I have to say my two bits. First, Mr Roberts stated that he is "disgusted by our "community's" (i.e. black gay men) lack of a critical response to what is going on here. How quickly and comfortably we rush to embrace any "theory" which suggests that black gay men (especially those in the ballroom scene) were responsible for violence against each other". He goes on to state that those of us who believe that this may have been a house rivalry "are experiencing here is a first: a demonic collaboration between a white, hetero-racist Chicago police institution and the internalized homophobia, classism and "anti-ballroomism" of the larger black gay community." How quickly my opinions and others are disregarded as "theory" and we are attacked as being "demonic" and tantamount to pink uncle toms collaborating with the always evil Five-0. Not knowing anything about me or my views other than the ones I've stated on here I am categorized as basically a self hating, bourgeois, anti ballest majority of a minority. WOW!!! All because I simply stated that I believe that this may have been committed by member of our own community. Because I did not immediately jump into victim mode, I get called vicious names. I have a serious problem with that. Secondly Michael Robinson goes onto to assail Javier Martinez for his comments. Javier said that he does not identify or understand the ball scene and it would be the same as asking him to identify with gay mimes. Michael comments that its obvious that Javier understands nothing of the ball scene, and that he should do his research. The way the statement is written is clearly meant to put Javier on the defensive. Why? Why such attitude when all he was doing was stating his opinion. Michael goes on to state that the house mothers and fathers would not condone a generation feud or rivalry or any kind. That in my opinion is an outright lie, I was associated with the ball scene for a long time and have numerous friends and associates that are still very much active in it. I have friends that are legendary house mothers, and I have friends that are up and coming. Rivalry is very prevalent in the ball scene, and feuds between houses can go on for very, very long times. Rivalry, more so than feuds is a staple of the ball scene, PERIOD. From D.C. to New York, from Atlanta to Detroit. Rivalry and feuding is there. Not to say its encouraged, but its there. Thirdly I also have a problem with those who say this couldn't possible have been a house vs house thing. Having been witness over the years to long held feuds between houses and being full aware of the incident at The Long Kiss Goodnight, Mother's Day Ball, Atlanta, 2005, why do I get attacked for thinking that maybe, just maybe this wasn't a hate crime. Black on Black crime is nothing new, neither is Black Gay on Black gay crime. Its not as prevalent as the many hate crimes that go unheard but it does happen. What I believe we have here are two things, the disgusting homophobia voiced by the neighbors and who actually committed this horrible crime. Yes the neighbors are homophobic idiots, who have a hand in tearing the black community further apart by attacking their brothers and sisters for being different. But just because the neighbors are morons, does not mean we need to jump to conclusion about who the real culprits were. Those I believe are the two most important issues involved here, "The Homophobia of our Straight Brothers and Sisters towards Us" and "Who the culprits of this Shooting are". They both can be looked at on their own merits. All I'm saying is, who knows...this could have been a vicious hate crime or a house rivalry. I wasn't there, I don't know. But just because I voice my opinion, does not mean I'm turning my back on Mr. Roberts or Mr. Robinson. It does not mean that I deserve to be called names. And just because I'm not in the ball scene, does not mean I'm some how elitist. It just means I'm stating my opinion. I just don't understand it. What do we have now, instead of Red and Blue states, we have Purple and Orange prides. Just my two bits, kinda long, but you know...One last thing, I know Mr. Roberts has a B.A. in English so excuse the errors if you will;)

i don't buy it either. true, there is not much evidence to prove or discredit one or the other theory, but frankly if it was believed by the residence to be a result of "house rivalry", i would like to think they'd step up and say so. but my outrage is in the simple fact that the police officials appear to automatically discredit the "hate crime theory" and jump straight to "gang rivalry", particularly when you have two young men (ON FILM) saying roughly, "we warned them, gays don't belong here." where is the accountability for those comments? i must agree whole heartedly with mr. roberts...where is the community outrage? where is the "COMMUNITY"?!!